tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6518202653898886981.post1131096067884037604..comments2024-03-27T23:29:08.366-04:00Comments on Down Goes Brown: Brian Burke and NTCs: Pick a laneDown Goes Brownhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10150805735008417848noreply@blogger.comBlogger71125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6518202653898886981.post-65578554435674640912010-01-31T13:29:54.145-05:002010-01-31T13:29:54.145-05:00Isn't it ironic then, that Burke was able to p...Isn't it ironic then, that Burke was able to pick up Giggy in a trade today. It would seem that his reputation to honour NTC's and treat players fairly has encouraged Giggy to waive his NTC to join Burke and the Leafs.shanerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11768430265547859112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6518202653898886981.post-1609572184085891522010-01-28T14:20:40.752-05:002010-01-28T14:20:40.752-05:00@Mike:
I agree with you 100% except the part abou...@Mike: <br />I agree with you 100% except the part about where you say: Kaberle obviously doesn't want to waive his NTC. He may not want to be made public that he will or wont but given last years draft day blotched Kessel trade indicates that he is willing to wave it. Its all a matter of to whom he will accept a trade to and if those teams want/need or have something we want or need.Mr. Koolaidenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6518202653898886981.post-16753000392837643112010-01-27T22:30:13.821-05:002010-01-27T22:30:13.821-05:00This is a simple situation that a lot of people ar...This is a simple situation that a lot of people are reading too much into. <br /><br />Kaberle obviously doesn't want to waive his NTC for whatever reason. <br /><br />If Burke comes out and says as much, then the media/fans crucify Kaberle exactly the same way they did Sundin when Fletcher said to the effect 'I'll leave that decision up to Mats'. <br /><br />If Burke says he just won't ask ANYBODY to waive a NTC, the media/fans kind of scratch their head a bit and if they're going to be mad at anybody, it will be Burke, certainly not Kaberle. <br /><br />Now ask yourself, from a player's perspective, what are you going to prefer? Do you want a GM who protects his player's like that, or a guy *cough*Fletchet*cough* who completely throws them under the bus and effectively kills them in the media, simply for exercising a clause in their contract that both sides negotiated in good faith?Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01368071097925970621noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6518202653898886981.post-11184189803239829112010-01-27T17:06:36.278-05:002010-01-27T17:06:36.278-05:00... it was stuck on 67 comments ... I couldn't...... it was stuck on 67 comments ... I couldn't let that standAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6518202653898886981.post-50476810998054761952010-01-27T16:02:47.622-05:002010-01-27T16:02:47.622-05:00Think one thing we really need to explore is exact...Think one thing we really need to explore is exactly to whom is Burke speaking here: "...he has a no trade – but if our team misses the playoffs, the no trade disappears from when the draft begins until the middle of the summer, I think it's August 15th. So at that point, the player is subject to be traded to 29 other teams. He loses any control he might have over that process."<br /><br />Now to think this point wasn't brought up to the Kaberle camp or even if that idea isn't in the back of Kaberle's mind, considering that they will not qualify for the post season this year is something we really need to think about. <br /><br />Put yourself in Kaberle's shoes. Say you want to be a Leaf, you know your one of the best players on the team that could net some serious return; you know Burke as the GM has to do his job, after all, pro hockey is a business and as such need to make tough and beneficial decisions for the organization. <br /><br />If I was holding a NTC, now keep in mind that a no trade clause does not mean you will never be traded, it just means as Burke said it, you have control over the process, ie if you want to go you can if not you can nix the deal; but the kicker in Kaberle's contract is that if they do not make the playoffs - which they will not, you seriously have to ask yourself, would you rather have some say in your situation or would you hope and pray come the 15th you're still a Leaf?<br /><br />I am sure by this point (I'm betting it already happened), a conversation between Kaberle and Burke took place. I'm sure it went something like Burke letting Kaberle know that he is getting offers, he wants to move him and will in the off season. He respects the contract and would rather Kaberle tell him which teams (a double figure number which means 10 or more but I'm guessing 15 is what Burke wants from him) and Burke will do his best to land him on one of those teams. Kaberle knows as most of us do, is that Burke will ship him out to the team that eventually offers the best return, whether that team is a team on that list before the trade deadline, the draft or if worse comes to worse, and failing making a viable trade for the team of Kaberle's liking, after Aug 1st thus going to any of the other 29 teams who offers the best package if one becomes available of Burke's liking. <br /><br />As much as we think why would Burke say one thing and do something else, one should really be asking, if I'm Thomas Kaberle, why would I give up control of my destiny and not submit a list of teams? If you recall last year, Burke thought he had Kessel for Kaberle and that was before Aug. 1st when Kaberle's NTC was still in effect. I believe Burke had a list of teams as he does now, of teams Kaberle would accept a trade to, its just a matter if Burke gets the package he wants and who he wants from what teams on that list. Its only smart if you ask me. One other thing that missed trade proved is that things in Toronto can be kept secret and that Burke really is and has the players interests in mind. <br /><br />So in short, if you were Kaberle, what do you think you would do given the situation? Also by Burke doing all this song and dance, is there any doubt that its really just out of respect or protection of said player? I think the chips will always be on Burke's side as most GM know exactly what Kaberle brings and the good far out weight the bad. Whether Kaberle moves in March, June or Aug, the net return will be about the same, either he's gonna be the final piece to your championship team now or he will be that piece that will be or could of been.Mr. Koolaide aka BlueBudsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6518202653898886981.post-32881893815527724952010-01-27T08:00:27.494-05:002010-01-27T08:00:27.494-05:00Chris said...
All the big teams right now wer...Chris said...<br /><br /> All the big teams right now were built off a few strong draft picks in a row.<br /><br />The top 6 teams in the league as of this morning are SJ, CHI, WSH, NJ, BUF, and PIT. Three of those teams went the tanking route, but only one has won the Cup.<br /><br />And it can't be mentioned enough that the biggest piece of Pittsburgh's Cup was acquired via a draft lottery following the lockout. Pittsburgh didn't so much tank for Crosby so much as they were awarded him in the Lotto 649.<br /><br />The pro-tanking argument is rooted in pure fantasy. Drafting well doesn't mean drafting first every year for 5 years. You need to abe ble to maximize every single pick you have at your disposal, and that's what San Jose, Jersey and Buffalo have been doing, and it's what Detroit has done for years.clrkaitkennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6518202653898886981.post-91510499282984196372010-01-26T21:47:09.688-05:002010-01-26T21:47:09.688-05:00All the big teams right now were built off a few s...All the big teams right now were built off a few strong draft picks in a row. Toronto needs draft picks badly for a rebuild, hopefully Burke gets rid of a bunch of guys for draft picks this year. And they all need to practice. Fundamentals like passing, and receiving passes. It's really painful to watch Toronto hockey right now.<br /><br />I think it would be worth giving up basically any player they have right now for high draft picks. Maybe not Gustavsson. Should see if Boston wants Tyler Bozak! Just don't play him anymore to keep his PPG up.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16313180104287846819noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6518202653898886981.post-5419286475967819772010-01-26T18:24:30.994-05:002010-01-26T18:24:30.994-05:00Think of it like this...
If Burke pushes Kaberle ...Think of it like this...<br /><br />If Burke pushes Kaberle for a trade and it goes badly, you guys will eat him alive and *never* forgive him.<br /><br />If Kaberle askes to be traded and it goes badly then Burke can legitimately say that the long-suffering, aging, player asked for a chance to go to a contender and the request was honored out of respect. Then Kaberle can be branded a selfish traitor who bailed in your hour of need.<br /><br />I think Burke is in a catch-22 and nothing he does this season will make the fans happy.Hockey in Houstonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6518202653898886981.post-13148486036429157602010-01-26T14:04:19.148-05:002010-01-26T14:04:19.148-05:00Here's what I think. IF you give a guy a NTC, ...Here's what I think. IF you give a guy a NTC, then you should not be asking him to waive it later. Burke is not the one who gave it to him, so in the sense of his "duty" to improve the team and all that, yeah, he should at least ask. <br /><br />Burke is probably thinking institutionally. That is to say it doesn't matter that it was JFJ who gave him the contract, it was the Leafs and now he is the Leafs, and he has to honour it. <br /><br />So it would be dishonourable if he personally was the one who had given Kaberle that clause. He still needs to say he won't bug him, but he can ask without really violating his principles.<br /><br />I'm almost a lawyer myself you see, so I can understand where he's coming from on this. ;)Leaf fan in Hablandnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6518202653898886981.post-77471022087319608042010-01-26T11:48:27.338-05:002010-01-26T11:48:27.338-05:00@Llama...
I guess that's the issue. Does hono...@Llama...<br /><br />I guess that's the issue. Does honoring an NTC mean never even asking?<br /><br />As I see it, Burke isn't doing anything wrong if goes to Kaberle with a list of teams that want to deal for him. If Kaberle thinks it over and decides he wants to stay, fine. Contract honored.<br /><br />But maybe Kaberle says yes. After all, as Marcie points out, things can change over the years. Kaberle asked for an NTC because he wanted to be in control. He still is. Why not ask?Down Goes Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10150805735008417848noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6518202653898886981.post-25819395510720992662010-01-26T11:37:35.892-05:002010-01-26T11:37:35.892-05:00I wouldn't ask Kaberle to waive it. He actual...I wouldn't ask Kaberle to waive it. He actually took a pay cut to get his NTC, and it should be honoured. Its not like Mc Cabe, who took a massive a salary that he didn't deserve and a NMC to go with it.Llamanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6518202653898886981.post-11558286272657768572010-01-26T11:37:19.968-05:002010-01-26T11:37:19.968-05:00I agree with Steve. I think Burke already knows th...I agree with Steve. I think Burke already knows that asking Kaberle to waive his no-trade would be fruitless, because the media's only been asking him about it every other damn day. I expect that as soon as Kaberle's answer changes from "I just like it here. Can't you people understand that? WHY WON'T YOU LEAVE ME ALONE" to "Ok, fine, you win, I might consider waiving for the good of the team, etc., and I need some goddamn peace and quiet" Burke will be all over him.<br /><br />If there's one thing Burke is good at, it's lawyerly doublespeak. It's certainly not going to weigh on him if he says now that he won't ask Kaberle to waive, but still trades him before the deadline, and even if that does come about because Burke did finally ask Kaberle to waive, Burke probably already knows how he's going to justify it to the media & fans. Don't forget, this is the man who very easily explained away his "I would never sign another team's RFA" when the Oilers signed Penner from his Ducks, then used the threat of an RFA offer to get the Bruins to trade him Kessel, not to mention somehow reconciling his "I would never trade for a man who reneged on a long-term committment" comment on Heatley with his previous trade for Chris Pronger. Still not entirely sure how he pulled that latter one off. I think people just lost interest, 'cause everyone knew he wasn't trading for Heatley anyway.<br /><br />We'll see just how much these "principled stances" of Burke's are worth some year when it's past his "self-imposed holiday deadline" but before the NHL's Christmas trade freeze and he gets a dynamite offer for, say, Jason Blake that's only on the table until Christmas. It's easy to say you're not going to trade a guy too close to Christmas when there's no trade activity then anyway. Virtually everything Burke says comes with an unspoken "BUT..." at the end of it.Brian Phttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02248836379390064060noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6518202653898886981.post-41831090835920844342010-01-26T10:54:11.165-05:002010-01-26T10:54:11.165-05:00Yeah DGB, I am with you. I don't see why askin...Yeah DGB, I am with you. I don't see why asking Kaberle for a trade is wrong. Kaberle is a professional hockey player. He knows about contracts, rebuilds much better than any one of us fans. He knows that it is a logical move to try to trade himself now. As such, this is not a personal decision on behalf of Burke, it's just logic. In fact it's a bit of a compliment. If Kaberle sucked this year then his trade value does down.<br /> <br />Besides, just because someone asks for a NTC does not necessarily mean that they don't want a trade. In a NTC you trade $ for personal stability. Personal stability may be an asset at one point in time but situations change. For example, if you sign a NTC cause you want stability for the wife and kids, you may think differently if that situation changes (divorce, the kids want to move, the extended family moves it's a good idea to move to be closer to grandparents... whatever). You sign a NTC cause you LOVE Toronto, but years later you look around and realise that you only have a few years to win a Cup. <br /> <br />I see asking Kaberle if he was interested in a trade (assuming it's handled properly) as the classy thing to do. NTC means Kaberle is "Master of his Domain' (ha) give him the power and the chance to pick his own destiny. Don't assume that you know his situation.<br /> <br />All this being said, you have to handle it properly. Sometimes how we handle personal situations has longer term consequences for the overall reputation of the team. I think this is what Burke was alluding to before. Basically Burke said that he didn't want to be a dick, cause that hurts the team's reputation. He is saying that if you get a good reputation as treating your people fairly, that is a bargaining chip down the road. Asking someone if they wish to move is not a dick move... handled properly it's a very kind one. <br />By not offering Kaberle a trade, you are almost insulting to his intelligence, and you don't give him that chance to leave in a classy, positive way if he in fact does want out.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16280928818155415516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6518202653898886981.post-35859242116580007082010-01-26T10:23:03.552-05:002010-01-26T10:23:03.552-05:00Brian Burke just needs to shut the fuck up. Him an...Brian Burke just needs to shut the fuck up. Him and Ronnie Baby need to take a month long hiatus from the media. They need all the time and energy they can possible scrape together, and put it into the team. I hope they are working 14 hour days, 7 days a week. Leafs are in a recession, and their "braintrust" (god-awful word)needs to cut back on frivilous time-wasters such as: Press conferences, post-game media scrums, practice day media scrums, media scrums (general), gameday interviews, phone interviews, email interviews, interviews (general), LeafsTV, and interacting with the media in general in any shape, form or fashion.<br />I really worry about the amount of time and preparation put into media commitments by Burke, and how that time and preparation could be better used. And Wilson's barbs are starting to sound rehearsed. <br /><br />-Maple Leaf MoleAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6518202653898886981.post-9667098432269585392010-01-26T02:21:01.467-05:002010-01-26T02:21:01.467-05:00It's entirely possible that Burke simply chang...It's entirely possible that Burke simply changed his mind between 2008 and 2010. Very likely? Probably not, but not outside the realm of possibility either.<br /><br />Why doesn't Somebody ask him?MikePhttp://snowcrash.canoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6518202653898886981.post-56542773588613597602010-01-25T23:55:17.164-05:002010-01-25T23:55:17.164-05:00Hey DGB, sorry to go offtopic but I thought you mi...Hey DGB, sorry to go offtopic but I thought you might find this funny: Kerry Fraser in his "last game in vancouver" whatever that means just waved off a shorthanded tying goal in buffalo v vancouver. The net came off hinges like a half second after the puck went in so he probably thought they scored when it was off hinges. He then justified it by giving buffalo ANOTHER penalty to go 3v5 against sedins. The homefield announcers and the guys between games all say it was a godawful call and Lindy Ruff nearly exploded.<br /><br />An ignominious end to a terrible career.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16313180104287846819noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6518202653898886981.post-57303247530799229412010-01-25T23:53:19.384-05:002010-01-25T23:53:19.384-05:00I think McCabe was the unofficial leader of the Mu...I think McCabe was the unofficial leader of the Muskola pack who collectively refused to waive at the deadline a couple years ago.<br />McCabe was the poster boy for the whole selfish, me-first, sense of entitlement that has been rotting this franchise from the inside long before this pitiful season started. That's why McCabe, Tucker, and Raycroft had to go first when Fletch began the housecleaning. Burke seems to think that rotten stench is gone but he's wrong... it's merely been transferred to people like Blake and Stempniak.pettycampnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6518202653898886981.post-23386286602705993652010-01-25T22:28:14.779-05:002010-01-25T22:28:14.779-05:00@Meat...
I'd say the message is "score i...@Meat...<br /><br />I'd say the message is "score into the <i>other</i> team's net".<br /><br />And the record for most comments was in the "Win a Copy Of the Leafs Annual" post, but that doesn't count since it was a contest. The true champ is the flowchart. Still 20 or so to go to beat that.Down Goes Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10150805735008417848noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6518202653898886981.post-91077301352913951232010-01-25T22:08:23.529-05:002010-01-25T22:08:23.529-05:0052 comments!! is that a record DGB?
Hey let me as...52 comments!! is that a record DGB?<br /><br />Hey let me ask you guys this<br />Sundin refused to waive his NTC and was cheered when he came back. <br /><br />McCabe waived his and he gets booed unmercifully when he plays here. <br /><br />What kind of message is that sending to Tomas Kaberle?<br /><br />Think about it.The Meatriarchyhttp://www.meatriarchy.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6518202653898886981.post-87382754448076392642010-01-25T18:43:26.057-05:002010-01-25T18:43:26.057-05:00@Chuck...
You certianly don't have to trade K...@Chuck...<br /><br />You certianly don't <i>have</i> to trade Kaberle. But there's a good case for at least considering it, including:<br /><br />- You need more picks and prospects, and he's the only tradable asset who'll bring anything significant<br /><br />- He may have several years left in his career, but he'll be on the decline soon -- his prime is now. The Leafs aren't ready to win anything right now, so it makes sense for them (and for him) to move him when his value is high.<br /><br />- Much of his trade value is tied to his great contract, but that only has one more year on it. Tomas Kaberle at $4.5M is a guy every team in the league would love to have. Kaberle at $6.5M... probably not.<br /><br />Again, none of that means Burke has to move him if the offers aren't there. But he won't know what the offers are if he refuses to even consider a trade without Kaberle pushing him for it.Down Goes Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10150805735008417848noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6518202653898886981.post-66071893441156701032010-01-25T18:42:17.840-05:002010-01-25T18:42:17.840-05:00@chuck diesel
absolutely - if they can only get p...@chuck diesel<br /><br />absolutely - if they can only get picks, they should keep him. But if they're getting a proven forward with upside, and a top draft pick, I agree with moving him.<br />As for how long the rebuild will take? We'll both be dead, my friend.pettycampnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6518202653898886981.post-20811125002465922502010-01-25T18:32:18.679-05:002010-01-25T18:32:18.679-05:00pettycamp but don't you think he has like 7 ye...pettycamp but don't you think he has like 7 years left? he doesn't exactly rely on physical prowess so that can't fail him. He is very Leetch like in that way and Leetch played til he was very old.How long do you expect this rebuild to last? I actually don't have a problem trading him for a guy like Kessel or Jeff Carter (ie young and already good) but for draft picks.. makes me scared.. especially if it's a late pick what's the point.Chuck Dieselnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6518202653898886981.post-78111695195051659862010-01-25T18:20:32.692-05:002010-01-25T18:20:32.692-05:00@chuck diesel
You trade him at this year's de...@chuck diesel<br /><br />You trade him at this year's deadline to maximize value. His value will never be higher than it is right now, and he will be not be an elite player anymore when the Leafs finally do become competitive again. Keeping him only delays the rebuild.pettycampnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6518202653898886981.post-40398022380563177512010-01-25T18:15:00.585-05:002010-01-25T18:15:00.585-05:00I think Burke's point is that while he does no...I think Burke's point is that while he does not like NTC's, he doesn't want to be seen as a GM that will renege on a deal.<br /><br />A perfect example has to be the agreement with Gustavsson, where Burke must have promised him he'd also sign Wallin and not release him or send him to the minors, regardless of how godawful he is.<br /><br />This should help attract future shitty free agents, as they will know that no matter how much they suck, they'll have a spot on the team...DeanoTPSnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6518202653898886981.post-81544092874565537122010-01-25T18:11:22.008-05:002010-01-25T18:11:22.008-05:00My bad..I'm not sure how his 0 goals in 35 gam...My bad..I'm not sure how his 0 goals in 35 games escaped me.<br /><br />DGB..I'm not sure if you take requests, but I'd love to see an article that's a Tale of the Tape between Wallin and Wall-E. I'm pretty you'll come to the same conclusion I have...I'd rather have the machine that cleans trash than the machine that is trash.Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12503257276347355034noreply@blogger.com